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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: January 4th, 2013, 1:36 pm
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Yes, the 21cm guns are a bot to large, I will use my old turret (from irl HSwMS Oscar II and use some features from Scharnhorst aswell. Her casemates are rather small, almost like a 15cm gun.

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: January 20th, 2014, 8:54 am
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Bumping this thread... sketch work still in progress.

Is this design a good respons to Rurik and SMS Scharnhorst?

Which other similar units do we have inte last generation of armored cruisers? (HMS Warrior?, japanese designs? french and italian designs?)

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: January 20th, 2014, 9:11 am
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The italian Pisa class and related Greek Averhoff, and the Italian San-Grigorio class comes to my mind. Isen't Rurik more agin to Blucher and basicly a ultimate outgrown of this early 1900 Armoured cruiser levels?

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: January 20th, 2014, 6:35 pm
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If one funnel is higher than the others, that allows distant observers to more easily determine the heading of the ship. That is disadvantageous.


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WWII44
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: January 21st, 2014, 1:52 am
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I like the funnel design.


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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: January 26th, 2014, 9:25 pm
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Yes, she is a link between the elder armored cruisers and the Nordstjernan battlecruiser. In fact a bit longer than her battleship cousins. She is somewhere between Rurik and Scharnhorst I Think.

Updated sketch:
21cm casemates adjusted
Longer first funnel
75mm casemates adjusted

[ img ]

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denodon
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: January 27th, 2014, 1:31 am
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Looking good so far. That forward rake on the bow is perhaps a bit too pronounced for the period and I can't help but feel that there should be more substance to the ram bow shape given the period design for most ships.
The gun layout looks fairly sensible, I'm assuming the 21cm guns in casemates are further out than the smaller guns mounted in front of their line of fire?

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: September 4th, 2014, 9:24 am
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I am back, for now at least. Having alot to do with, my 3 month boy and everything else. I have some mintutes off to start where I Think I where last time, the remake of my cruisers.

I totally recalculated my Valkyria armoured cruiser, trying to put her in caotic cruiser revolution around 1905-06. She is similaar in size and arnament to her german, italian. Built with Scharnhorst, Black Prince and Dreadnought at the horizon.....

I used turbines because 1906 Dreadnought got one, the ´RSwN wanted speed and the inventor of many parts to the turbine was Swedish (IRL) so I hope I can befint some experience and enginering from that.
Quote:
Valkyria, - TYPE D
Sweden
Armored Cruiser
laid down 1905 (Engine 1906)

Displacement:
9 438 t light; 9 906 t standard; 10 703 t normal; 11 341 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(472,44 ft / 459,32 ft) x 72,18 ft x (19,69 / 20,63 ft)
(144,00 m / 140,00 m) x 22,00 m x (6,00 / 6,29 m)

Armament:
8 - 8,27" / 210 mm 45,0 cal guns - 284,97lbs / 129,26kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,07lbs / 49,02kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
6 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 13,62lbs / 6,18kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
2 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 3 037 lbs / 1 378 kg
Main Torpedoes
4 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 19,69 ft / 6,00 m torpedoes - 0,827 t each, 3,309 t total
submerged bow tubes

main/sec gun layout

........................1x21........1x15...1x15....1x15...............................
<----------2x21--------------O-----O-----O------O-----------2x21--------2x21-----------)
........................1x21........1x15...1x15....1x15...............................

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 300,20 ft / 91,50 m 10,20 ft / 3,11 m
Ends: 1,97" / 50 mm 157,48 ft / 48,00 m 10,20 ft / 3,11 m
1,64 ft / 0,50 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 1,97" / 50 mm 298,56 ft / 91,00 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Hull void:
0,00" / 0 mm 0,00 ft / 0,00 m 0,00 ft / 0,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 2,95" / 75 mm 6,89" / 175 mm
2nd: 3,15" / 80 mm 1,18" / 30 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1,57" / 40 mm
Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5,91" / 150 mm, Aft 29,72" / 755 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33 883 shp / 25 277 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 5 000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 435 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
525 - 683

Cost:
£0,950 million / $3,801 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 763 tons, 7,1 %
- Guns: 757 tons, 7,1 %
- Weapons: 7 tons, 0,1 %
Armour: 2 748 tons, 25,7 %
- Belts: 1 110 tons, 10,4 %
- Armament: 635 tons, 5,9 %
- Armour Deck: 630 tons, 5,9 %
- Conning Towers: 373 tons, 3,5 %
Machinery: 2 420 tons, 22,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 257 tons, 30,4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 264 tons, 11,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,3 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull void weights: 25 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons
- Above deck: 25 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11 832 lbs / 5 367 Kg = 41,9 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells or 2,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
Metacentric height 5,0 ft / 1,5 m
Roll period: 13,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,574 / 0,580
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Forward deck: 10,00 %, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Aft deck: 55,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 16,70 ft / 5,09 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100,5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,8 %
Waterplane Area: 23 664 Square feet or 2 198 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 548 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,51
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
She has quite short foredeck which is one deck higher than the long afterdeck. I have therefor put the 2 21cm single mounts forward on the after deck,

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Last edited by Psilander on September 5th, 2014, 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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eltf177
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: September 4th, 2014, 9:38 am
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I approve of this, if any AC's were to be built after the introduction of Dreadnought then they would have been fitted with turbines...


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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Armored cruiser, 1905Posted: September 4th, 2014, 11:12 am
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YAY - Welcome back Psilander :!:

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