Shipbucket

Yes, the ships built pre war lasted longer; apart from the less hasty construction the hull was properly treated against corrosion, but this was left off on the war built ships.

As I mentioned, one of these will get the full Tiger treatment, but no Seaslug, as the hull was deemed too cramped for both the automatic guns and Seaslug; for such we'd be looking at a larger hull, as we've represented with the Admiral class. I would be thinking more in keeping the current guns, enhancing sensors, and anti-aircraft defence, to still have capability in the more traditional cruiser role.

OK. Looking forward to see the new drawings.

From what I understand "Tiger" conversions (ie pre Helicopter carrier version) are what Swiftsure and Superb would have received if their refits had gone ahead.

Incidentally, as is well known, Tiger, Blake and Lion were all launched during the war then laid up for years awaiting redesign of their topsides. Does this mean they suffered from the same Emergency War Construction flaws as the other ships of this type? I've read somewhere that they were surveyed for duty during the Falklands War and were found to be in excellent condition but it would have taken too long to get them back into service. Tiger and Blake weren't broken up until the mid-80s which gives them a lifespan from keel-lay to breakers of 40+ years. Swiftsure and Superb barely managed half of that.

HMS Swiftsure and HMS Superb were in effect sisterships to HMS Blake, HMS Lion and HMS Tiger, as far as the hull is concerend. The RN felt it was unnecessary to mount more than two of the new twin Mk. 26 gun mountings, in HMS Blake, Tiger and HMS Lion, as the volume of fire from the 4 barrels of these guns was more than equal to the volume of fire produced by the 9 barrels of the older guns. The Mk. 26 had the added bonus of being dual purpose, i.e both against surface targets and aircraft. Also the weight of the new guns (the 6" guns and 3" guns), was higher than from the older guns. That is the reason why the newer cruisers seemed under-armed when compared to HMS Superb and HMS Swiftsure. In the late 1950's HMS Swiftsure was taken for a modernization which would produced a virtual sistership to HMS Blake, having two twin Mk. 26 6" gun mountings and three twin 3"/70 gun mountings, as well as a complete re-build of the bridge and having lattice masts. The modernization was halted, for lack of money (what else) when HMS Swiftsure was almost completed, and essentially was lacking only the armament and electronics.

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Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

To be more precise, and to perhaps add further clarification, Blake, Lion and Tiger were originally Swiftsure class vessels, and were originally going to be completed to the same exact design. They were more or less 100% finished up to the top deck, and about 10% finished on superstructure, when two things came about to change everything:

1.) The end of WWII and thus they became surplus

2.) The development of said RF automatic 6" gun turret, which actually promised a new life for these unfinished hulls

Thus, the ships were modified to best accommodate these new turrets as practical (the main limitation being the turret's weight). If they had been new-build hulls for the purpose, I'd imagine the Brits would want something closer to the U.S. Worchester class (which infact they did - the never-built Minotaur class which again owe their basis to the Swiftsure, along with the never-built GW96 missile-gun cruiser which Hood/PB did earlier in this thread).

To add to the confusion, these were also known as the Minotaur class, though another design (never built) also bore that name. The actual Minotaur was transferred to the RCN, and became the HMCS Ontario. I have read (somewhere) that pre war the RN had the hull steel acid treated to inhibit corosion, but this application lapsed during wartime; and why some hulls still lasted is a good question; though the blessed Norman did state that the Superb, though last to be built was first to be scrapped, due to short hull life. Maybe the uncompleted hulls got some treatment while waiting to be turned into 'Tigers' ?

I found this in one of my old books,I hope it helps.

Hi, occasional lurker who has decided to join up after discovering this excellent thread!

Firstly congratulations to all the artists on their excellent work, I particularly liked the Admiral Class CG's, I've seen a line drawing of the 1956 cruiser design before but never something with that level of detail! Looking forward to seeing what comes next!

I have two questions,

Firstly was the Orange Nell SAM a sort of 1960's version of Sea Wolf? and Are you planning to produce any AU RFA ships?

Welcome aboard!

Yes the Orange Nell was a 1950s attempt at what Sea Wolf would later be.
We may do some AU RFA ships in good time!

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

Have just joined this forum (normally I am uk 75, but I glitched my registration here).

Excellent project. Any chance of doing the nuclear RFA based on the Resource class or Olns class
tanker with Savannah aft end. Also the 1962 Escort cruiser design with Seadart instead of Seaslug.
Friedmans new Cruisers book has info,

I got cut off my my computer. Here are my suggestions again, with more sensible layout

Nuclear RFA 1960s based on either Resource or Olna class large vessel. I like the Savannah
style housing and have seen UKAEA drawings of merchant ships to this design. RFAs in the 60s
were designed to merchant standards so this would fit your navy as a carrier support ship

The Royal Navy Escort cruiser mentioned in Friedman 's cruisers as being ready to build in 1962 but deferred because of Polaris and design team shortages. Armed with Seadart and Ikara (and SS11!) and
carrying Chinook ASW helos. I see this ship modified from the one shown in all the books with Seaslug but with features similar to CVA 01 drawings of 1962-3.


Nuclear double ended Bainbridge equivalent with Seadart instead of Terrier. ASROC deleted, though
the RN did want it but could not afford it according to Friedman.

Frigates based on the 50knot Malaysia frigate or hovership that DK Brown hated so much. He designed
one based on a Type 12. Vospers did a hovership design in the late 60s which was a frigate style ship.
I will try and find and scan in my local library.

I realise that you have your own carefully thought out plan, but..

BAC 583 was in one form a kind of mini TSR2. A manufacturers model is shown on the UK Secret Projects sites Postwar aircraft thread. I will try and post a link.

Oh and Knut was the Polar bear in Berlin who died of a brain illness-appropriate for me I think.