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Hexelarity
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 24th, 2016, 9:06 pm
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RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
NEXT UP: Helicopter/VTOL carriers, heavy-gun cruisers converted to guided missile cruisers!
How did the Caribbean get Carriers? let alone a helicopter carrier is expensive and pointless.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 24th, 2016, 9:32 pm
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Hexelarity wrote:
RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
NEXT UP: Helicopter/VTOL carriers, heavy-gun cruisers converted to guided missile cruisers!
How did the Caribbean get Carriers? let alone a helicopter carrier is expensive and pointless.
Can I know why it would be pointless? Not being mean about it just want to hear your opinion. Remember that it's an AU and anything can happen. Would an amphibious warfare dock/platform be more practical for the needs of a shallow-water nation?

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 24th, 2016, 9:39 pm
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citizen lambda wrote:
RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
-Here is the updated, if not necessarily improved version. I removed the missile launcher in favor of a cheaper AK-230 twin 23-mm CIWS system. The issue was that I couldn't find a launcher developed around this time frame that could fit the vessel. The main gun has been swapped for the dual 57-mm ZIF-31 mounting. I chose this one because it was older and therefore more likely to be produced for export to allied nations. I just don't really see the need for an SAM system on a submarine tender, especially for a smaller nation who would, in my humble opinion, be more inclined to mount such advanced and expensive systems to front-line combatants such as destroyers, frigates, escorts, and later on, small aircraft/helicopter carriers.
That looks better IMHO. My point exactly on the SAMs. For reference, Poland upgraded all its landing ships in the 80s with the quad Strela I mentioned earlier, so that's something you could add in a later upgrade. In the interim, the AK-230 is a good choice, only AFAIK it always comes in pairs. Which can be side-by-side without trouble, but always require a radar director. If you want manual control, stick to the 2M3 twin 25mm, which the Soviets did e.g. on minesweepers until the 1980s (manual control so you can visually aim at floating mines that can't be picked up by a CIWS radar). The min gun looks good as well, but would need a radar too to be marginally useful.
To summarize:
- ZIF-31 => Owl Screech or Muff Cob radar to replace the stereoscopic rangefinder atop the bridge
- AK-230 => Drum Tilt radar aft of the stack
- No aft radar => 2M3 instead of AK-230

Re. radars, your upgrade could do with a main tripod or lattice mast between bridge and stack, completely replacing the twin one you have (why two masts, BTW?). Put a navigation radar on a shelf above the bridge, and a larger search set atop the tripod and you're 80% done.
Re. further upgrades, the space abeam the mast could be used for that pair of Strela quads I mentioned, or a pair of PK-16 or PK-10 decoy launchers.

On a more general note, it looks like the cargo deck is where your mine deck used to be before the conversion. Does it mean there were mines stowed below decks? If not, you probably can't afford to dig down for your cargo hold without compromising something useful, so maybe include a solid railing one level higher or something, for some actual holding capacity. Weather might be clement in the Caribbeans, but you don't want your torpedoes just rolling off the deck in a cross-wind, do you?
On a related note, where is your crane operated from? There is no cab I can see, so you'll need some remote operation room, plus the machinery to move it. If you can afford to lengthen the crane arm a bit, may I suggest moving it to the forward edge of your cargo deck, and building a little deckhouse between the AA guns (assuming a pair) for the associated systems? Also you can put your FC radar for the AK-230s atop that.
If you want to keep the crane that far aft, at least you'll need some supporting structure below, since again you can't easily carve out space from below the main deck, and anyway someone piloting the crane will need some visibility and can't do it from under deck.
Yes there is space for the mines to be stowed below decks. The torpedoes and cargo could be stowed in the same place and then raised out of the hatches by the crane. Cargo could be stowed on deck in calm weather if the seas were calm enough. Does the crane need to be placed on kind of an elevated platform? I also see that the crane lacks a pilot house and control cab. I will see if I can re design it to improve the radar arrays and crane. Thanks for the tips!

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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 24th, 2016, 9:55 pm
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RegiaMarina1939 wrote:
Yes there is space for the mines to be stowed below decks. The torpedoes and cargo could be stowed in the same place and then raised out of the hatches by the crane. Cargo could be stowed on deck in calm weather if the seas were calm enough. Does the crane need to be placed on kind of an elevated platform? I also see that the crane lacks a pilot house and control cab. I will see if I can re design it to improve the radar arrays and crane. Thanks for the tips!
No, I don't think you need an elevated structure per se, my idea was just that, in the case where the below-deck space was taken, you can't just bolt such a crane on top and would need some load-bearing column tied deeper into the structure. If you have space below decks, that shouldn't be a problem. Maybe a crude top-view of that area can help you figure out more easily what you can load (torpedoes take space) and where you can place the crane to best use the dek space available.

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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 24th, 2016, 10:06 pm
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After many, MANY conversations with Glacies about Caribia, A small helicopter carrier or LHD may be a good idea for Civil Defence, following a national disaster such as an earthquake or hurricance, or a major civil disturbance, such as on the British Caribbean Island of Grenada in about 1985 when the British appointed Governor-General was displaced and held captive and Grenada had to be liberated by armed force by the OECS (Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States) supported by US forces during "Operation Urgent Fury".

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 24th, 2016, 11:04 pm
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Here we go! Hopefully the last update I have to make to this design, I would really like to start work on the carrier, but I did want to refine this design for the benefit of the community here. I moved the crane up onto the superstructure and placed a control box below. I originally had them in swapped positions but opted to mount the crane on a higher ground, even though that doesn't really seem like a perfect idea in retrospect... Well, in any case the radar directors for the forward guns have been changed as well!

[ img ]

Specifications:
-Type: Submarine tender, 1965.
-Length: 217 feet
-Beam: 23 feet
-Draft: 7 feet
-Displacement: 4,210 tons
-Speed: 24 knots
-Machinery: 2 x high-pressure oil-fired boilers, 2 x steam turbines, 2 x 6-cylinder backup diesels
-Armament: 1 x dual radar-directed 57-mm DP gun, 1 x 25-mm AA gun, 1 x AK-230 CIWS

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Last edited by RegiaMarina1939 on November 28th, 2016, 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 27th, 2016, 5:59 pm
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[ img ]

-What you see here is obviously a T-34/85! These tanks formed the backbone of the CCCN army's armored force until 1959. After the WWII, the army sought to phase out all American-made armored vehicles in favor of the Soviet-made equipment that was now readily available. First purchased were 120 T-34/85's, manufactured in Czechoslovakia and modernized with a new gun and engine. In the upgraded form, the tanks were kept in service until transferred to reserve and storage in 1959 in favor of the newer T-54/55.

[ img ]
-First acquired in 1964, the SA-8 Gecko was the CCCN army's primary short-range SAM system both on land and at sea. The system worked effectively and was deployed as the standard SAM system for all army units until 1979, when an adequate replacement could be allocated. Total service number stood at 265 in 1972. It is seen here in mountain forces camouflage for a 1965 mountain training simulation in conjunction with Russian troops.

[ img ]
-Again another WWII-era weapon system, the BM-13 Katyusha rocket system was developed by the Russians as a means of devastating German formations on the eastern front. After the war, it was exported in massive quantities to other nations allied with the USSR, including the CCCN, which acquired 140 units. 24 of these went to the 1st Armored Brigade's support artillery regiment. They served until 1976, when replaced with the improved BM-21 Grad System.

-More army stuff is coming! I am working on making equipment for the air force as well. The carrier is almost done, just need to finish details and the propellers/shafts. Next update will probably be army artillery and some air force planes/helicopters.

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Last edited by RegiaMarina1939 on November 28th, 2016, 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 27th, 2016, 9:58 pm
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[ img ]
-The M-46 130-mm Field/Anti-tank gun was purchased by the army in 1956 in order to acquire a weapon which would fulfill the need for heavy anti-tank weapons and a general-purpose field artillery weapon. In total, 215 individual weapons were delivered, each with it's own artillery tractor. They were distributed to the mechanized infantry, filling the spots in their support artillery regiments. The guns were found to be very reliable and had respectable range and ballistic characteristics. Towards the 1960's, when the 130-mm caliber was dropped in favor of the 122-mm caliber, the guns were placed in bunkers around the coasts to be used as coast-defense weapons against any possible amphibious attack. 13 guns were sold to Colombia and a further 24 to Peru, along with artillery tractors and ammunition. They were totally phased out by 1970.

[ img ]
-When looking for a good self-propelled anti-aircraft system, the CCCN army found it's answer in the ZSU-57-2. A reliable weapon developed in the Soviet Union, it basically consisted of a pair of 57-mm automatic guns mounted in a high-angle turret on the chassis of a T-54/55 tank. 137 units were imported from the Soviet Union, filling the need for mobile short-range AA weapons. They were replaced by the ZSU-23-4 Shilka in the 1980's, which was in turn replaced by the Tunguska SAM/Gun system.

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Last edited by RegiaMarina1939 on November 28th, 2016, 11:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 27th, 2016, 10:09 pm
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Interesting choices of weapons.

Missed the credits on the M-46 130mm.


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RegiaMarina1939
Post subject: Re: Communist Community of Caribbean Nations!Posted: November 27th, 2016, 10:27 pm
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[ img ]
-During World War Two, the CCCN air force operated several types of fighters, including the Yak-9, P-40, P-51, among other things. Changing requirements however, necessitated that the air force adopt a new fighter capable of destroying all known western bombers. For this role, the MiG-15, a groundbreaking design from the Soviet Union was selected. The first operational jet in CCCN air force history, 50 were initially purchased for service with the veteran 1st Fighter wing based at Guantanamo Bay air force base. Just 4 months later, 140 more were purchased and became the air force's standard fighter until replacement by the MiG-19 and 27. When the CCCN acquired nuclear weapons for the first time in 1988, the MiG-15 was used as a trainer for future MiG-27 pilots (the MiG-27 was the air force's main tactical nuclear bomber) It was totally removed from service in the early 90's.

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