Shipbucket
http://67.205.157.234/forums/

Australian DDG the helio option
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1549		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  graham [ July 19th, 2011, 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Australian DDG the helio option
I have been playing around with this some time and now Portsmouth Bill has taken a interest so I will post a very early concepts.
In 1960 the idea was being floated around that Australia should modified the DDGs to get some helicopters to sea on small ships
At this time we had 27 Wessex ASW helicopters which were operated from the Melbourne
The ideas was that one 5 inch gun would be given up so a 1-3 helicopter could be operated from a DDG, it was contended that the after boiler room / funnel may have to be given up.
I have tried to fit in the Wessex and keeping the after boiler room just moving the Missile Launcher further back, The problem is the operating envelope for the Wessex makes it all most impossible to do So the next design is to remove the after boiler room/funnel so we will have
Flight deck, Hanger, Missile launcher, Mast for the SPS 52, Not sure where I can put the SPG51s
The drawing that I have used is the Australian DDG 1990 ie with the gulfs war modifications, CIWS guns / RIBs
Please feel free to add you ideas

[ img ]
Author:  erik_t [ July 19th, 2011, 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
In practice, moving the Mk 13 seems almost impossible. It's harder than moving a major gun mount. I think you'd end up losing the Mk 13 and moving the hangar forward, which might allow a hangar large enough to hold two smaller helos (and in any case would allow the Wessex to actually fit comfortably).
Author:  Portsmouth Bill [ July 19th, 2011, 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
It is certainly a difficult task to adapt the design to carry even one Wessex; and yes, graham kindly sent me some goodies care of my brother 'Chatham Jim' including a massive Janes 2008 :lol: So I got interested myself, but as graham has dibs I'm leaving it. Well it was definately a serious design study, and maybe graham can share more information? But it was abandoned and instead the RAN bought the standard Adams. And I have my own project now, based on a bigger hull, so I'll post eventually :)
Author:  erik_t [ July 19th, 2011, 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
I wasn't paying close enough attention - I thought this was a suggested modification. Relocating the Mk 13 becomes slightly more possible, then. Still would be a big project.
Author:  AussieAdmiral [ July 21st, 2011, 5:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
I saw a book once, many years ago, on the post war RAN projects that did not eventuate eg Fiji class cruisers. It had this in it as well, although the book referred to the year 1959. There was a small drawing which (from memory) showed no hanger and both the MK13 and aft 5" gun removed. I don't remember the book's title. However I do remember thinking "What a waste". The British only managed to get a chopper on the Counties because they were 6000 tons. I dought it could be done on a CFH without killing the ship's viability. Removing a boiler would cut the speed and removing the 5" gun would cut half the surface fire and some AA fire. If you took it to the MK13 launcher as well there would not be much of a general purpose ship left.


Mike
Author:  Portsmouth Bill [ July 21st, 2011, 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
Here is what I have on this project; the second drawing courtesy of graham:

[ img ]

[ img ]

I tend to agree with the consensus that this was a project beyond the capabilities of the Australian shipbuilding industry, and based on a risky premise: that a hull that size could accomodate a helicopter and hangar, by only sacrificing one of the 5-in mounts. I'll be away for a while, but when I get back I want to investigate what would be possible on the Coontz/Farragut hull. :)
Author:  graham [ July 23rd, 2011, 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
On doing a bit more research I have complied all the Tatar Equipped FF, DD of the 60 & 70 that have been drawn in SB
There is only one missing the Japanese Asakaze class, I haven't included the USA's DLGNs, CAGs, or the Taiwanese FFGs

[ img ]
Author:  TimothyC [ July 23rd, 2011, 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
Why do you have that FFG-7? It was drawn by someone who didn't follow SB standards or use official parts.
Author:  acelanceloet [ July 23rd, 2011, 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
and I believe half the 'tartar users' you have listed here are actually SM-1 users. if you wanted to incorporate those as well, you miss some ships.
Author:  graham [ July 24th, 2011, 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Australian DDG the helio option
I deliberately tried kept it to the 60-70ish using the "Tatar" from the 3 T concept Talos/Terrier/Tatar even when I doing my training in the late sixties the Tatar was referred to as the ITR (Improved Tatar Ret-regrade ) the start of the evolution towards the Standard missile concept ) and suppose I was trying to describe/show the positioning of the GLMS-13 Launcher and how various counties system integrated them into their designs. Perhase in hindsight should have kept to the early sities :roll:

Graham
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/