Shipbucket

The name, so we're clear, is 'Tartar'. Not 'Tatar'.

...nor did the Japanese Hatakaze-class ever use the Tartar; besides being a 1980s design, not a 1960s or 70s! If there's any class, you may be referring to, designed at the end of the 1960s/ beginning of 1970s it is the Tatchikaze-class! I don't think the OHP ever was equipped with Tartar. Since this design wasn't completed till the end of the 1970s, that system was already replaced by the time of the class-commissioning by the more capable SM-1MR.

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

Yes Hatakaze-class shouldn't have been in there
yes “Tartar”

And yes I do believe that trying to put Wessex on to a DDG would stuff up a perfectly good DDG but hey this is a interesting concept that may just float possibility "wrong way up" !!! Still trying to remove top weight from the design.

graham

A few more thoughts on the ASW versions of the Australia DDG
When this idea was first mooted there wasn’t a great deal of helicopters to chose from either a Wasp/Dash concept which was only weapon delivery system which depended on the parent ship Sonar for target detection. With the Australia government developing IKARA these helicopter would be a needless duplication for ASW weapon delivery system. Where as the Wessex was a much more self contained ASW weapon System (Dipping Sonar/Radar).
The Wessex is a large Helicopter and trying to fit 3 on a DDG is a major undertaking
The following points are relevant
These A/C needed a lot maintenance so a large group of maintainer are needed ( so I guess about 10-15 personnel plus space for spares and maintenance/workshop areas
I assume 4 aircrew for each aircraft for a total of 24-30 additional A/C personnel which would make big inroads on the ships accommodation. There would be some reduction to the Ships crew ie aft gun crew/ after Boiler crew etc
Space would be needed for A/C fuel As build the DDGs used black oil FFO so a separate A/C fuel system and storage arrangement would be needed
There would be a A/C weapon stowage needed for 12-20 Mk 44 torpedoes / depth charges. All this stuff would need a major redesign of the ship and I assume a lot of additional weight added, Flight deck, Hanger, Workshops, fuel stowage, weapon storage,
Moving the GMLS moving upwards etc, all this would change the stability a great deal, to compensate for all this would need items removed the aft 5” gun, boats, and the after boilers (but keeping all the AUX machinery TA/HPAC/DG etc) I suspect that there would need to be a lot weight added low down in the ship correct the changes to the trim and satiability.

This removal of the second gun and reduction to the speed would in 1965-72 been disastrous to the DDGs deployment to Vietnam. So it was a good idea not go ahead but this has not stopped the RAN trying to modified/improve what was already a perfectly function ship/plane/weapon and make a completed stuff up of it

One thing that I don't have is internal layout drawing like the Booklet of general plans, does anyone know where I can get one ?

Hi Graham
As noted in Friedman's book on British destroyers, the minimum landig area for a Wexxex helicopter was 80ft on 40ft, and a hangar was 43ft on 19ft on 17ft for the helicopter itself. Using these dimensions you can work out the hull requirements for a 3 Wessex helicoters DDG.

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Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

I just don't see any way that that hull could hold three helos with the original machinery plant as well as Mk 42, Mk 13 and ASROC/Ikara. Consider how much the large helo hangar drove the Spruance design, and realize that that hangar was about 1/3 the size of that needed here (1 SH-3/2 SH-2 vs 3 Wessex).

And this is why I think the "we need a second gun to counter Indonesia's cruiser" argument as advanced back then to be a bunch of smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that they just couldn't do it.

Novice wrote Thanks Novice that is the sort of information I am looking must re-read Friedman's book again I have just got his cruiser book which is a very good read.

Graham