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brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'
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Author:  acelanceloet [ April 2nd, 2011, 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

I post this ship in this early stage because I can't answer this question myself, and it is important for finishing the hull....
in 1811, were dutch (or british) ships like this coppered or had they just an painted wooden underwater hull? and if painted, what colour?
Attachment:
irene sb 1.png
I will post the interesting story and more data about it when it is finished... but that might take some time.

Author:  Thiel [ April 2nd, 2011, 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

Well, coppering were available, but I don't think it was widespread outside the Royal Navy.

Author:  acelanceloet [ April 2nd, 2011, 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

well, this ship was originally an royal navy ship, but was captured. the dutch were a large seagoing nation then as well, so........ well you get why I'm not sure :P

Author:  Thiel [ April 2nd, 2011, 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

acelanceloet wrote:
well, this ship was originally an royal navy ship, but was captured. the dutch were a large seagoing nation then as well, so........ well you get why I'm not sure :P
It might be coppered then. However, the alloys needed to make coppering work was considered top secret in Britain.
So it really depends on when it was build. Before or after the Napoleonic war.

Author:  acelanceloet [ April 2nd, 2011, 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

hmm, I pick a book for that now. in a few minutes I'll edit this post. it was captured in 1811, that's for certain.... and scrapped in 1826, IIRC
EDIT: build 1806
scrapped 1822

Author:  bezobrazov [ April 3rd, 2011, 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

While the Brits started to experiment with copper sheathing of their ships already in the 1760s, with some progress reached in around 1777, and then began to on a wider scale implement coppering on 1st thru 6th rates, by around 1779/80, other navies, most notably the Spanish were quick to follow. Already by 1785 the Spaniards had implemented a full-scale system to copper-sheath their vessels, thus adding even more to their legendary longevity. The French program was seriously disturbed and set back by the onset of the Revolution, which funnelled the valuable metals into other, more imminent uses. But by 1800 nearly all French men-o'-war were thus protected, and, since the Batavian Republic, later a Napoleonic Kingdom was a part of France at this time, it follows that Dutch vessels were so treated as well. At the Camperdown (Kamperduijn), in 1797, Adm. de Winther's fleet was, almost in its entirety coppered; so was, too, Adm. Duncan's. Also, at Trafalgar most French, and all Spanish vessels had copper bottoms, as had the entire British fleet opposing them. So, my answer is: since this is a former 6th Rate, that is the lowermost rate where coppering was done, you should copper the bottom. Unless for electrolyte-conflicting reasons the copper bottom quite literally would have fallen off (it did happen!), there's no reason to believe that the practical and prudent Dutch would've removed it - unless, of course by direct Royal Command from King Louis I of Holland (that is Napoleon in proxy!) - So, again, copper it!

Author:  heuhen [ April 3rd, 2011, 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

is she not of the cruize class brig?

Author:  acelanceloet [ April 3rd, 2011, 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

bezobrazov wrote:
While the Brits started to experiment with copper sheathing of their ships already in the 1760s, with some progress reached in around 1777, and then began to on a wider scale implement coppering on 1st thru 6th rates, by around 1779/80, other navies, most notably the Spanish were quick to follow. Already by 1785 the Spaniards had implemented a full-scale system to copper-sheath their vessels, thus adding even more to their legendary longevity. The French program was seriously disturbed and set back by the onset of the Revolution, which funnelled the valuable metals into other, more imminent uses. But by 1800 nearly all French men-o'-war were thus protected, and, since the Batavian Republic, later a Napoleonic Kingdom was a part of France at this time, it follows that Dutch vessels were so treated as well. At the Camperdown (Kamperduijn), in 1797, Adm. de Winther's fleet was, almost in its entirety coppered; so was, too, Adm. Duncan's. Also, at Trafalgar most French, and all Spanish vessels had copper bottoms, as had the entire British fleet opposing them. So, my answer is: since this is a former 6th Rate, that is the lowermost rate where coppering was done, you should copper the bottom. Unless for electrolyte-conflicting reasons the copper bottom quite literally would have fallen off (it did happen!), there's no reason to believe that the practical and prudent Dutch would've removed it - unless, of course by direct Royal Command from King Louis I of Holland (that is Napoleon in proxy!) - So, again, copper it!
very well :D then I will start coppering it tonight....

Author:  bezobrazov [ April 3rd, 2011, 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

She might be a Cruize-class sixth-rate, indeed. Haven't had time to check that out, though. But that class was a very extensive one...

Author:  darthpanda [ April 3rd, 2011, 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: brig of war 'Irene' ex 'HMS Grashopper'

A sample of coppering in SB scale:
[ img ]

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